JUSTIN

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:23 am

Oh, and an elephant is laughing at you in a way elephants are known to do.

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:58 am

with tromboners

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:13 pm

Justin is this the right place for asking questions about The Dark Knight Returns? Because I'm wondering why exactly ***SPOILERS*** the President told Superman to arrest Batman. ***END SPOILERS*** I didn't catch that part when I read it, and wikipedia's explanation is completely ridiculous.

***SPOILERS AGAIN*** And why didn't Supes just zap Batman with his heat vision from orbit? ***END SPOILERS***

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:33 pm

I KNOW THE ANSWERS

THESE ARE ALL SPOILERS

as i remember, bruce donned the cowl again in the first place due to a massive influx of crime mostly by a gang called "the mutants" and harvey dent returning to a life of crime. the media calls him a menace a lot during this time. after a while batman ends up leading the mutants, because he kills their leader or some noise.

gotham however is still very criminally active, so he trains the mutants (who are not actually mutants--just cyberpunks really) in non-lethal fighting to combat the crime wave. soon they have stopped all looting--a task the incredibly small of non-corrupt police would have never hoped to achieve-- and are helping to rebuild the city into a prosperous and safe haven again.

the us government sees this at batman one-upping them. the entire length of the book, the news would talk about how batman was not real, but an urban legend: the official stance was that he was and is now fake. superman, ever the do-gooder, agrees to assassinate batman when the us government asks him to do so. batman, though, was warned by the green arrow--i forget how he knew about it--and through a kryptonite arrow and a sort of super-suit, batman ends up defeating superman in hand to hand combat in crime alley, the very spot his parents were killed over thirty years ago.

also superman didnt just zap him because at first he wanted to just bring bruce wayne in and not kill him--a lot of the book is clark asking bruce to stop, because he knows the president will ask him to take him out--and in the end, after trying to appeal to bruce's sense of reason and give in, honors him in hand to hand combat which he believe he can win.

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:33 pm

PS: http://kundor.org/pub/the%20dark%20knight%20returns/

Christmas came early Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Posts: 9225

how come i remembered the parts with superman and a pretty white pony more than i remember that kick ass fight

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:50 pm

See okay, I read those comic book pages before and all I could think was that either (a) you nerds don't know what "winning a fight" actually means, or (b) I don't know which one is Superman and which one is Batman.

Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 195

SPOILERS

Boorishly, the only reason Superman is seen to "win" is because Bruce suffers a self-induced heart attack before he can really subdue Supes. Superman knows he lost to Batman; it's on his face at the funeral. By faking his death, Batman can now do everything he had done before, except he uses Robin and the Mutants to do it for him--Batman is no longer a target. There is no target. Superman failed, and it's his personal failures that are always seen to really undo him. In this way, Batman won.

Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 195

"GAY MORAL VICTORY" might do more for TaBBers as an explanation though.

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:01 pm

Dr. Strong wrote:

SPOILERS

Boorishly, the only reason Superman is seen to "win" is because Bruce suffers a self-induced heart attack before he can really subdue Supes. Superman knows he lost to Batman; it's on his face at the funeral. By faking his death, Batman can now do everything he had done before, except he uses Robin and the Mutants to do it for him--Batman is no longer a target. There is no target. Superman failed, and it's his personal failures that are always seen to really undo him. In this way, Batman won.

This is pretty spot on, though I don't know if "moral" is the right term for this victory.

For more proof of when this sort of stuff happens, see Superman: Red Son, in which our dear friend Lex writes in a letter, "Why don't you put the whole world in a bottle, Superman?" effectively bringing him to his knees and in about ten minutes reversing 40-ish years of Communism.

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:08 pm

man did frank miller take anti-art classes or what!

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:09 pm

Sorry, but it's not "winning" unless you actually win! Besides which, Batman gets more help than Hercules does in killing the Hydra and we know how THAT turned out. (It didn't count.)

Christmas came early Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Posts: 9225

justin i have been wondering
what would happen if batman found out that the police killed his parents because they (his parents) were bad guys?

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:02 pm

do you mean like if he found out now or before he became

the batman

Christmas came early Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Posts: 9225

both

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:03 pm

trainwreck wrote:

I KNOW THE ANSWERS

THESE ARE ALL SPOILERS

...so he trains the mutants (who are not actually mutants--just cyberpunks really) in non-lethal fighting to combat the crime wave. soon they have stopped all looting--a task the incredibly small of non-corrupt police would have never hoped to achieve-- and are helping to rebuild the city into a prosperous and safe haven again.

the us government sees this at batman one-upping them. the entire length of the book, the news would talk about how batman was not real, but an urban legend: the official stance was that he was and is now fake. superman, ever the do-gooder, agrees to assassinate batman when the us government asks him to do so.

That's the part I thought was ridiculous. I read that in the plot synopsis on the wikipedia and I simply could not believe it.

I must have skipped an important page or something.

Quote:

batman, though, was warned by the green arrow--i forget how he knew about it--and through a kryptonite arrow and a sort of super-suit, batman ends up defeating superman in hand to hand combat in crime alley, the very spot his parents were killed over thirty years ago.

I seem to recall a scene where Superman announces that he plans on kicking the Batman's arse by zapping "NAME THE PLACE" or something to that effect in the snow outside Wayne Manor with his heat vision. I don't remember if that was before or after the talk with the Green Arrow, and I don't care enough to look it up. I guess Supes knew that his fight with the Bat would be EPIC so he wanted to make sure they fought somewhere where no civilians would be injured?

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:09 pm

My favorite part of The Dark Knight Returns was the part where the Bat was leading an army of cyberpunks across Gotham on horseback.

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:41 pm

What if Batman found out that the guy he thought killed his parents all along wasn't actually the guy and the real guy was Sandman.

Christmas came early Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Posts: 9225

What if batman thought the guy who killed his parents was the joker but then 2 movies later decided it was two-face

Joined: 08 Dec 2005 Posts: 9009 Location: SOMEWHERE EXTREME

What if Batman found out the guy who shot his parents was actually him, but he blocked out the memory?

true falcons will attack children · Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:08 pm

What if Batman's mom was stuffed into the refrigerator?

true falcons will attack children · Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:11 pm

What if Joe Chill didn't kill Batman's parents but eventually somebody else did, or Joe Chill killed somebody else and, either way, the multiverse achieved a final balance as, inevitably, it must?

Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 8693

What if Batman's parents never existed and it's all actually an imprinted memory used by a vigilante organisation to fuel his crime-fighting activities?

Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 8693

What if Batman's parents faked their own deaths to escape being captured for their super villainy, and have been reigning all these years over Bangalore?

Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 5283 Location: Hollywood, CA

I would totally read an elseworlds batman comic where his parents were bad guys, the cops killed them, and so bruce wayne was inspired to become a villain, especially if, somehow, that meant that the joker became a superhero.

Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 8693

The Joker would become a hero because he would still be trying to destroy the Bat-Man, but in this instance that would just happen to be a good thing because Batman would be evil and dangerous.

And in the end the cops team-up with the Joker I don't know, and the Joker gets a pardon or something.

Joined: 08 Dec 2005 Posts: 9009 Location: SOMEWHERE EXTREME

posiduck wrote:

I would totally read an elseworlds batman comic where his parents were bad guys, the cops killed them, and so bruce wayne was inspired to become a villain.

There are two different Batman villains like that.

Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 153 Location: Australiaaaaa

What if Batman's parents were just out at the shops and he had just been visiting at really inappropriate times?

Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 153 Location: Australiaaaaa

When he finds out his parents laugh at him and he later becomes an accountant

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:57 pm

What if Bruce Wayne's parents killed the cops?