Jane Eyre

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:27 pm

Oh, I guess you're right. There ARE ways that it could still go terribly wrong.

Christmas came early Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Posts: 9225

From the studio that brought you 300 and Sin City

He couldn't hear their screams
but he could fight for their souls

Frank Miller presents

The Heart is a Lonely Hunter

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:01 pm

Miles wrote:

Also what is "the Literature Style"

Basically, I'm going by what's under the "Literature" section in bookstores. Which is often separate from the "Classics" section.

Unwinder: that would be awesome, srsly. Unless Frank Miller did it.

Boorishly: Perhaps there's a difference between Literature as in Great Works and Literature as in the genre? Though I have to say I'm honestly not familiar with a bunch of the authors you listed. My opinions may be biased by some of the truly craptactular things we had to read in high school (The Scarlet Letter and The Sun Also Rises are both boring as all get out), and some of the truly annoying "literary" crowd who dismiss anything genre, not just my favorite genres. Do you have suggestions of where to begin? Finishing Jane Eyre, perhaps? Maybe we should find a way to distinguish more between "literary" fiction and "Great Works of Literature", but that's part of the problem, the "Literary fiction" crowd that's claimed the arena and title of literature for their own.

Also, I would suggest that every community, for any kind of literature, has those same kinds of "this isn't a real XXXX story!" people, just that the science fiction and fantasy ones are more common on the internet and the circles you (and we) travel in. I'm sure the mystery magazines get letters of that kind, and... actually, that's the only genre I can think of that still has magazines. I imagine romance novel publishers get letters. I even would bet the people who publish things that are supposed to be new and edgy and different get letters, probably when something seems too "normal". The screaming types who don't want anything to change from what they're comfortable with aren't unique to sci-fi and fantasy.

As to why science fiction at least is special, it's because at its best, science fiction involves trying to extrapolate into the future, and see what the results of new technologies and things may be. Both good and bad. Which is important. Fantasy is theoretically connected to the oldest kinds of human stories. I'm not going to try as hard to defend that, though.

But like you say at the end, the things that make any good story good are pretty much the same, the "Literary" genre isn't any more special than any other genre. As for "classics" I guess that depends on a case for case basis, some really are good enough to deserve the reputation, some just got lucky and survived, and some I guess are by authors who did one or more other notable things but not everything they did was good.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:17 am

the Deerstalker cap was a film addition in the first place. It IS recognizable, but it's not necessary.

Idealy, would it be a close-to-literal adaptation, or a contemporary update, or what?

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:25 am

Not contemporary, but I think it would be either a loose adaption or mostly original material, because who wants to watch a mystery when they already know the ending?

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:26 am

For some reason, even though I haven't read that many Sherlock Holmes stories, it has recently become important to me that he be introduced to a new generation.

Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 8693

You could set-up a spambot to email out links to Arthur Conan Doyle's Project Gutenberg page.

Or you and a friend could dress as Holmes and Watson and go on a speaking tour of local primary schools.

Joined: 08 Dec 2005 Posts: 9009 Location: SOMEWHERE EXTREME

they already made a videogame where he fought cthulhu I don't know what more you can do.

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 741 Location: Palo Alto, CA

There was a Neil Gaiman story about that too.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:41 am

Forsyth I would suggest as a starting point to forget everything you thought you thought about books that you read in high school and try reading them again now. I hated Jane Eyre so much when I read it in highschool (likewise The Scarlet Letter) but I re-read it a couple years ago and really liked it. The Scarlet Letter I read last quarter (and I'm actually supposed to be reading it right now but come on I just read it) and I wouldn't say I loved it but for one thing I realized that it's way shorter than it used to seem and anyway I definitely get what it's about way more now. And although I am still firmly resolved that Hawthorne can't write children's dialogue to save his life, having read a number of his things recently I have a lot more respect for him now.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:32 am

I would just say approach literature like any other kind of fiction! When I first tried to set my own reading syllabus, I picked books that were by writers I already knew I liked, books that I knew had good stories from movies I'd seen, and books that it seemed like everybody was supposed to read. The ones that I liked least were the ones in the last category.

I also do a lot of reading about writers -- on Wikipedia, elsewhere on the Internet, in the prefaces to scholarly editions of books, in books about particular periods of literature. Basically the point of that is to find out which other writers might be similar. If I like Writer A, then knowing who they hung out with, or who they liked to read, or who they got in arguments with can be helpful.

These days I only occasionally read books because I feel like I have to, but I am glad that once upon a time I did read Moby-Dick and The Scarlet Letter and The Sound and the Fury and Catcher in the Rye, even if I didn't really enjoy them at the time. They are good books to know about if you really want literature to be a serious hobby, but it would also be horrible to sit down and read a bunch of books you don't care too much about all in a row. (This is probably why a lot of school reading seems like such a chore.) So most of the time, I'd say stick with whatever gets you excited, and sometimes take an educated risk on something that you think sounds interesting but you aren't totally sure about.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:36 am

Also, as far as I'm concerned, Hemingway's stories are pretty much indistinguishable from soap operas. I don't really like his style either, but that is mostly what makes his books "Literature". I guess he was lucky in the sense that he was in the right place at the right time, and some people who had sway with the literary world happened to like his work. (Sherwood Anderson first, then Gertrude Stein later.) That doesn't mean he wasn't talented, though, and his style was undeniably a major influence on many other writers.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:49 am

Unwinder, how should this movie approach the cocaine? Play it up, or look the other way?

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:54 am

Actually Unwinder, I don't know if I can get behind this project. There are like five million people who have written "new adventures of Sherlock Holmes" and I pretty much hate all of them. So if this movie is not going to hew close to what Doyle wrote, I kind of think it needs to back up off his classic character.

Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Posts: 782 Location: USA

Forsyth: If you don't like all these authors' novels maybe you should try their short stories if they have any and see if you like those better. Short stories are generally not as acclaimed as novels so when you're reading them your subconcious isn't going "man what the heck this isn't the story of the century or whatever" and giving you a hard time reading it. Also if it turns out you don't like those either then you've only spent around a half-hour to an hour reading it, maybe more if it's unusually long or you're a slow reader.

Unwinder: I like Shelrock Holmes as well, but I'd also like an examination of the Holmes mythos, as it were, too. Something like a post-modern interpretation of Holmes wouldn't be bad in theory, I'd think.

But yeah, it's about time someone made a major movie about Sherlock Holmes.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:54 pm

Dr. House Adventures is pretty heavily based on Sherlock Holmes.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:43 pm

Hugh Laurie as Sherlock Holmes, Stephen Fry as Doctor Watson! hug yes!

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:44 pm

Batman is pretty heavily based on Sherlock Holmes.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:56 pm

Well guys there have been about a billion movies about Sherlock Holmes. Before you start asking for new ones, shouldn't you maybe watch the ones that we already have?

Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 1580

Plus the Saturday morning Cartoon....where Holmes was recloned so he could solve crimes in the future! And Watson is a robot!

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:55 pm

Boorishly P. Foundry wrote:

Well guys there have been about a billion movies about Sherlock Holmes. Before you start asking for new ones, shouldn't you maybe watch the ones that we already have?

I don't want to SEE a movie that hasn't been made necessarily, I just want to see HOLMES MANIA overtake the entertainment industry.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:56 pm

A fresh, new film is simply a means to that end.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:56 pm

I mean, how long can this superhero trend last? Things got to shift sometime.

AND THEY SHOULD SHIFT TOWARD DETECTIVES.

Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Posts: 782 Location: USA

Unwider c-can some of these detectives have improbably cool gadgets, like laser pens that can shoot people and jetpacks?

Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Posts: 782 Location: USA

Also most of their cases revolve around stolen rocket cars.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:35 pm

OK, as long as it is emphasized that they are detectives and not spies.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:36 pm

Alligator Detective will probably lead the charge.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:38 pm

Batman will have no trouble adjusting.

They might reboot him again, but that's all.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:40 pm

Also we all know that detectives are huge on TV, so when all the detective shows start getting canceled and then getting big-screen closure to appease the fans who don't want it to be over yet, then that is what will provoke the rush for detectives on the big screen solving mysteries about murder.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:36 pm

Batman without the cape, with a battered trench coat and a cigarrette, just trying to catch that son of a bitch who did the crime.