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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:12 pm 
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people keep arguing on the internet about BB-8's gender and nobody's asking the tough questions like: how did threepio give birth to that thing

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:32 pm 
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through a c section obv

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:35 pm 
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the only guy around that could help was a jedi
not a doctor so
he had to use his powers to guide the anesthesia properly
so
force eps were involved

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:37 pm 
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he
had parts specifically made for the occasion
made out of a titanium and peridot alloy
called
perinium

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:04 pm 
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BB-8's real gender is BMO, imo.

But seriously how good was this movie.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:15 am 
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In a way, Kylo Ren has to be redeemed in the sequels, because he's really bad at being a villain. Discuss.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:33 am 
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And because he's identified so much with Vader, and because everyone keeps insisting that Snoke is misleading him/exploiting him. I'm sure he'll be redeemed but I don't like his chances re: number of seconds between redemption and death.

I guess he could get redeemed at the end of VIII and be a good guy through IX? But that wouldn't make much of an End of Act Two Low Point, unless Rey turns evil at the same time.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:57 am 
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i came out of star wars pretty hyped about it but after the "just saw star wars in a theater for the first time in sixteen years" hype died down and i started critically thinking about the film, it was in the bottom half of the movies i watched in 2015 for sure. The pacing was hot garbage and the characters were paper thin. I loved their relationships with each other but absolutely nothing felt earned because JJ (I call him JJ) couldn't stay in one place long enough for me to care about a single goddamn thing. Hopefully a lot of character development got left on the cutting room floor because I can see this movie very much benefiting from a lord of the rings-style three hour extended edition.

Kylo Ren is pretty blatantly JJ's take on Revan, he even has the whole "actively choosing to be evil" thing that all evil Bioware player characters have. He's the most compelling character in the film by far but his relationship to the original trilogy characters is boring. The thing I liked most about him is how much he reminded me of Raiden from the Metal Gear games, both in attitude and also for spoilery reasons. Just like Raiden, Ren is obsessed with looking cool constantly and playing the part of Vader even though he's not particularly good at it from what we've seen in the movie. Like he's alright at butchering unarmed civilians but he struggles in combat against an untrained non force user. Sounds a lot like MGS2-era Raiden. Raiden is my second favorite Snake after Big Boss. I would not be surprised if he says "Ren's back" in episode xiii and I would like to see what Hideo Kojima's opinion on this is.

I think i could forgive the pacing and characterization problems more if I liked the aesthetic of the movie though, but I didn't! It didn't feel like star wars to me. It didn't feel like a star wars movie in much the same way star trek 09 didn't feel like a trek movie. The way it was shot didn't look like star wars. It looked like a jj Abrams film. It had a good deal less of the excess Abrams is known for but it still lacked the workman-like, matter-of-fact quality that star wars has come to represent. It was an adventure film set in the star wars universe, similar to how st09 was an action film set in the star trek universe. There's definitely something to be said for the way George Lucas constantly reminds you that you are watching a film. "These are actors, this is a set" he says. It creates a different relationship with the work than something more "immersive."

I also hated a lot of the creature effects. The puppets looked horrible, like Episode 1 Yoda bad, and Maz Kanata would have been much better off as Lupita Nyongo in makeup rather than what we got.

I will say though that I liked basically all the characters even if we never got to know them. Finn and Poe are cute. Phasma, Hux, and Snoke are scary. I pray to god the twist in episode ix isn't that snoke is actually very tiny, like andre's roommates. Also BB8 is a robot and is non-gendered but its dads are C-3P0 and R2-D2 and they are definitely boys and they are definitely gay.

These are my star wars opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:06 am 
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oh also i half-jokingly said "Episode vii is episode iv in a post-9/11 world" to a friend on the way out of the movie last month and i think, if pressed, i could defend that. where episode iv is informed by ww2, episode vii is informed by iraq, etc

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:12 am 
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A Bear wrote:
And because he's identified so much with Vader, and because everyone keeps insisting that Snoke is misleading him/exploiting him. I'm sure he'll be redeemed but I don't like his chances re: number of seconds between redemption and death.

I guess he could get redeemed at the end of VIII and be a good guy through IX? But that wouldn't make much of an End of Act Two Low Point, unless Rey turns evil at the same time.

I am pretty convinced that this is gonna be how it turns out at this point. But I mean, I pretty much have only successfully guessed a spoiler when it was completely fuck-obvious it was gonna happen, so you should probably not trust my judgment here.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:33 am 
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Zach wrote:
i came out of star wars pretty hyped about it but after the "just saw star wars in a theater for the first time in sixteen years" hype died down and i started critically thinking about the film, it was in the bottom half of the movies i watched in 2015 for sure.


It was no Carol, that's for damn sure

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:12 am 
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AW FUCK IT, here are my reasons for why I think Rey will turn to the dark side in 2017:

  • Star Wars has a thing with thematic naming, and I find it oddly suspicious that Rey's name is so similar to Ren (the name of the order of knights Kylo leads, or is at least a part of, I think? I dunno, they never really got into this). To, like, the point where I keep confusing them when I read discussions about the movie on the internet. (Admittedly I am a huge Kylo Ren fan, so that pretty well biases me, and also I have not been having the best sleep lately.)
  • The Force Awakens takes a lot of story beats from the previous movies, and while most of those are from the original trilogy (A New Hope in particular), there are a couple themes from the prequels in there as well. (For example, First Order and the Aulden Times Jedi Council both take their ranks from stolen children too young to remember their families, and Kylo Ren is basically Darth Vader as Anakin from the prequels.) One of the things I found interesting about Rey is how much her situation mirrors Anakin's from A Phantom Menace: they're both slaves (or wage slaves) who are unusually force sensitive and good pilots. And come to think of it, wasn't Anakin working as a scavenger before he got picked up? The two examples I listed before could be considered responses to the prequels (respectively, "what if this behavior was explicitly called out as evil?" and "what if this whiny pissbaby Anakin was how Vader acted?"); Rey's resemblance to Anakin, too, could be another response: "What if the audience actually got a chance to know and like Anakin before he became evil?"
  • Everything seems to be set up for Rey to be Luke Skywalker's daughter (the lightsaber vision, Maz asking Han about her in the cantina, the rebellion stuff she keeps in her shack, etc.) But if she is his daughter, this raises a question (well, two, but we'll get to that one later): What kind of jerk abandons his own daughter? On a planet that everyone agrees is the butthole of the universe, no less! (Sure, Luke probably didn't take her to that planet, but he sure as hell didn't take her back.) It would take a lot of work to make that choice sympathetic.

    Unless...

    Unless he felt really guilty about her, somehow. Remember what I said about Rey being intended as a weapon? Maybe he felt bad about that, so bad that he couldn't bring himself to go get her, to remember her. You think Rey is gonna be happy to hear her new mentor all but abandoned her as a child? You think learning that she was something to feel guilty about will make her feel better?
  • Also, how would Luke even get a daughter? Adoption? In my opinion, Rey has too many Skywalker traits (force stuff, hot rodding, pilotomancy, hot rodding) to be some rando's kid. Married and had one? Jedis don't get married, and anyway Luke is gay. So what are our other options? Well, we've seen ways to have children that don't involve sex in the Star Wars universe: cloning, for one, and also there was that weird conception thing Darth Plagueis did to make Anakin. Rey wouldn't have to be the result of one of those, but there's enough evidence to suggest that Luke, if he really wanted to, could science/psychic himself up a baby (to be used as a weapon (Rey was going to be used as a weapon))
  • Kylo obviously knew about her, given his reaction when he hears about a "girl" on Jakku. If she was Luke's regular daughter, or the daughter of one of her disciples, sure fine whatever. He probably met her while training. But!

    We still don't know what led Kylo to the dark side. Sure, fine, "Snoke seduced him", yeah whatever. However, these things usually have a reason behind them. I'm not sure if the First Order rose before or after Kylo joined them, but Finn was taken from his family before he could remember them, and I doubt at 19 he was the oldest soldier on board, so let's say that had been going on for more than that many years. That's enough time for Luke to make a weaponized baby to combat this threat, and Kylo (nee Ben) to object because seriously, who turns a baby into a weapon. Snoke got wind of this, sidled up to Ben, and said "Hey Ben, looks like these Jedi guys are pretty bad news huh. Wanna know what your grandpa did in this situation? Killed himself a bunch." And the rest, as they say, is Star-War history.

    Because look. Kylo Ren is a pretty shitty villain. I don't mean in story terms (he's menacing, he's got a killer hook and motivation, he's even a little sympathetic), but inside the narrative, the diegesis. His heart just doesn't seem to be into it, he's constantly getting berated by Snoke for being seduced by the light side (the light side, for god's sake! The least seductive side!), he idolizes his Sith grandpa that ended up rejoining the light side anyway, and he kills his father, not because he hates him, not even because he can, but because he loves him and he just can't handle that distraction on his path to the dark side. Kylo isn't on the dark side because he wants to, but because he feels like he has to, and I say something pretty fucking bad had to have happened to cause that has to.
  • Also, this is dumb but: people with British accents tend to be bad guys in Star Wars. Sorry, it just happens. Like, the only good people with a British accent I can think of from the hexalogy are Obi-Wan Kenobi and Leia in A New Hope. Other than Rey, I can't think of a single British-accented good guy in this movie, unless that old guy at the beginning had one (I forget). You could say it's because Daisy Ridley is an English actress, but then John Boyega's British and they had him speaking American as Finn.

So, now you have my reasons. Keep them in mind for the next movie when they all turn out to be horribly wrong and Rey is revealed as Han and Leia's long-lost daughter, or Obi-Wan's grandniece, or the reincarnation of Jar-Jar Binks, or whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:23 am 
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forgot where I read this but apparently the novelization describes a barrier in Rey's mind, and when Kylo Ren examines it all the force bursts free and Rey becomes a super-Jedi

I gotta think it was put there in fear she'd be Vader II: The Sequel

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:26 am 
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though actually Rey is obviously Jaina Solo, who lost her memories after having escaped from the former Expanded Universe by punching time

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:59 pm 
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Dang, I didn't realize how invested I was in this theory until I posted it on another forum and got some pushback. I guess I make Luke into too much of a bad guy, whoops. I guess I just can't see the laid-back, easy-going guy from the original trilogy just fucking off to parts unknown without even giving his loved ones a way to contact him if he didn't do something he felt really guilty about, and imho if it's something like "oh, I wasn't a good enough Jedi," it's gonna come off as really lame. But then Kylo Ren in many ways is a really lame villain and he's cool, so maybe they'll find a way to make it work.

Really, while I'm not confident that any of the fine details of the theory will come true, I'm quite certain that the very basic, broad strokes behind it (that there is some seriously bad juju behind Rey's origin, and that learning the details of it will tempt Rey to the dark side, if not turn her outright) will play out in the future movies.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:03 pm 
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ALSO: I guess this is all born from my fascination with the Awful Skywalker Mans (aw yiss, gimme all the redemption arcs) and I would like an Awful Skywalker Lady to be added to that ensemble, plz.

EDIT: Well that and the fact that I wouldn't even be on this tack if Darth Veeder hadn't brought it up at the beginning of the thread. Dang it, Ryan! I don't wanna be obsessing over this.

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Last edited by Healy on Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:10 pm 
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didn't he exile himself because his nephew was just that much of a fuck up?

I can see him being like, "shit, my nephew is too fucked up, new jedi was a dumb idea, I'm turning off my daughter's force and dropping her on shit tatooine"

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:11 pm 
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also btw in the novelization she's already being tempted by the dark side
like apparently after ren turns her force back on she starts thinking stuff like "or maybe I could just kill that dude, that'd work too"

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:20 pm 
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Dezro wrote:
didn't he exile himself because his nephew was just that much of a fuck up?

I can see him being like, "shit, my nephew is too fucked up, new jedi was a dumb idea, I'm turning off my daughter's force and dropping her on shit tatooine"

that would be another allusion to kotor as well imho

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:37 pm 
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Dezro wrote:
also btw in the novelization she's already being tempted by the dark side
like apparently after ren turns her force back on she starts thinking stuff like "or maybe I could just kill that dude, that'd work too"

whoa, hey!

I'm guessing from the "apparently" that you haven't read it yourself? You should check it out and report back to the thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:45 pm 
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I prefer to let other people read novelizations and then read their blog about it as an ebook. For some reason only Ryan North's got my back on that one though?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:30 pm 
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Dezro wrote:
also btw in the novelization she's already being tempted by the dark side
like apparently after ren turns her force back on she starts thinking stuff like "or maybe I could just kill that dude, that'd work too"

I got this vibe from the movie actually. During the duel when Ren mentioned the word "Force" and that caused her to meditate for a second and then enter a lightsaber fugue, she was fighting less like a Jedi and more like a hate-fueled Anakin.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:47 pm 
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She had a pretty good reason to hate Kylo Ren, given that he killed Han, her sort of father figure, just minutes before. Hate does lead you to the dark side, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:02 pm 
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Heard a strong argument she's a Kenobi grandkid. I'll see if I can find the article.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:28 pm 
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the
obsession with genetic lineages is def one of the things
that turns me off the star wars series
re: the whole "I am your father.... that basically has had no impact on your life whatsoever yet for some reason is meant to be r important to you"

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:43 pm 
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Healy wrote:
AW FUCK IT, here are my reasons for why I think Rey will turn to the dark side in 2017:.

i think she probably will, but you're underplaying the baby jedi slaughter, which was set up as *the* defining event between eps 6 & 7, will be the origin story of rey and of evil ren (& maybe finn imho) and was the not-unexplained reason luke skywalker left/abandoned everyone (was gonna write 'abandoned rey' but tbh still holding out hope that the luke-rey connection they dangled as a recurrence of vader-luke was a smoked herring, and the actual secret connection is rey-finn or rey-ren as siblings, a recurrence of luke-leia)

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:50 pm 
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Hello Again wrote:
the
obsession with genetic lineages is def one of the things
that turns me off the star wars series
re: the whole "I am your father.... that basically has had no impact on your life whatsoever yet for some reason is meant to be r important to you"

in the 1st ones it kinda made sense iirc because luke was a norphan and his uncle/adopted father was an arsehat, so finding out about a secret family that was evil space hitler was a big deal

in the new one it's bc the characterisation is flat as a lake so the emotional impact is derived from characters' relationships with old star wars characters (which is why i really hope tommy isn't right about hamlet to the extent that the big climax of ep 8 is rey skywalker killing her dad)

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:23 pm 
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Image
aside from the silly tumblr things, thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:33 pm 
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Rey and Finn being siblings seems weird to me, since it's established canon that Rey watches when Poe and Finn bone down. But if they are related I guess that's just the post-9/11 version of Luke and Leia kissin'...

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:17 pm 
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Dezro wrote:
Rey and Finn being siblings seems weird to me, since it's established canon that Rey watches when Poe and Finn bone down. But if they are related I guess that's just the post-9/11 version of Luke and Leia kissin'...

wait what?

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